Should Outeniqua Choo Tjoe be revived?

Useless ANC

Idiots like this kill this country, they destroy and corrupt everything. Useless black morons.

So sad

Hi There.

I feel that this is so sad that we cannot fully appreciate the heritage of this train and the opportunities that are lost now because people are not willing to put in the effort. Funny that Table Mountain is now the 8th wonder of the world through public votes and participation, yet nobody is willing to appreciate that this train was special and deserves to be restored and conserved so that people (well the ones with brains) who don't say stupid things about white tourism (I have to wonder if he realises how much tourism plays a part in our economy) being redundant.

There are also so many resident South Africans that this kind of scenic adventure caters to that we cannot discount them. I would far rather have this train and it's tracks fixed up and up and running again than money giong into a white elephant like Ratanga Junction which holds no fascination once you've been there once and also has no history or heritage significance.

Kind Regards

This tourist attraction

This tourist attraction should be revived. If some people stop putting tax-payers' money into their own pockets, there will be enough money to keep the Choo Tjoe going.

Have they ever thought of advertising in foreign countries and on TV and in the media? Are there any adverts whatsoever? It could be a 'trekpleister' for a lot of tourists. There are trains like this in many countries and I've never heard of one closing because they were not generating money.

Tjoe-choo

Please bring it back. Our country is poor without the Tjoe-choo!!

Pricing for tourists

It's interesting that an adult round trip ticket on a 5 mile restored railway in the UK (run mostly by volunteers) will set you back the equivalent of 120 rand! And with the OCT, we're talking 42 miles of the most fabulous scenery and an all day event.

It seems to me the market pricing was wrong. Maybe SA nationals should get one rate and internationals (ie tourists) another rate. Whatever, some way of getting it back open and up and running again before it completely disintegrates beyond repair should be found.

As a tourist, it was a great and very memorable experience.

Outeniqua Choo Tjoe

I dont think i will ever see it run again in my life time.
if it dose i would be gladly suprised.

Railway Heritage

It appears that those in charge don't have a clue how modern business works, get the tourist into South Africa where they can spend their money which in part is a tax and that goes into the projects you want to fund simple. more tourists more money for your pet project

The Choo-Choo

"South Africa has more serious problems to deal with than to finance toy trains for white tourists," he said, noting the still major investment needed in national infrastructure.

Ouch!! How is shooting oneself in the foot like this going to assist bringing in income into South Africa? It appears that Transnet or whatever the current name is now has a policy of selling off the assets of the country as scrap to finance the no doubt fat salary packets of inept managers, or, even worse, letting them rot away completely. No not the managers unfortunately, I am refering to the assets.

Us white tourists fly into South Africa on SAA, we hire transport, we stay in hotels, we buy curious, we eat ice cream, hamburgers, and drink your wines and beers. We visit your game parks and other places of interest. We travel on the Choo-Choo not because we need it to get from A to B but because it is "lekker"! The scenic views are (sorry were!!) the attraction.

So alright it is now obvious that we are not wanted anymore! The R60,000 per person we spent during the short time we were there will now get spent in a much more wide-awake country who are not still fighting a war that ended more than a quarter of a century ago.

Adieu South Africa!! When you are on the bones of your ass-ets remember you can always shake the trustworthy old begging bowl of the starving and we will donate you a few pennies to keep you alive to suffer a little longer and weep about the short sighted racial decisions you have made.

private

The line must be open for forign tourists.It brings lot of forign curency in.

Choo-Tjoe

I've got thousands of photo's of the train, it's a National treasure. It's neither a 'toy train' or restricted to 'Whites', whatever they are (I thought that we were all South Africans - no longer colour coded!)
It's also a serious tourist attraction, bringing money into the area and Country as a whole. Does the relevant executive also believe that our game parks are a whites only domain? Why not close them too!!!

Bring it back

Since the anc took over they started slowly destroing things that the apartheid goverment build up. Why? The train is just not there only for white south africans but there for every one that lives in this country. The people must stop looking back and look foreword. If marketed right that line can be profitable and maybe even create new jobs, but no its for white south africans only? please u that said that wake up.

Outiniqua itself - Toorwaterpoort

I recall after the last flood damage on the railway line through Toorwaterpoort Transnet stated that this line will be closed when the next flood comes along as it is not profitable.

This will see the main line through George closed along with the very scenic Outeniqua railway pass. No more trains on any track anywhere in or near the Garden Route! No financially viable. This is a real threat. Nearest station then Beaufort West.

Toorwaterpoort is an incredibly scenic track section aboout 180km from George on par with Meiringspoort (N12 road). As no more passenger trains runs through it (not profitable you know) very few people nowadays knows it.

I also wonder how much tourism potential there is on the very scenic Natal Main Line between Durban and Estcourt. The only passenger train I know of travel it at night. Transnet can make so much money without even trying.

Soon the only train carrying tourists will be the Gautrain between ORTIA and Sandton.

Choo-Tjoe

Just bring the Choo-Tjoe back. It is still an attraction irrespective of how young or old you have become. A few more people may get employment through the repair of the railroad and the return of the train.

Tourist money is money.

This creap that bring race into the subject is a real moron. We need all tourists that bring money into the country. It was quite a while back that I took a ride on the train and there was definately not a sign then that said :"Whites only". So if the blacks are so stingy as not to pay for a joyride it's their problem.
This portion of railroad will be taken over by private business and as soon as there is a profit showing some government official will start talking about nationalization again.
I grew up in this area and the train was our only way of transport.

WAKE UP THE GOVERNMENT!

What an uneducated government employee can ever think of asking a question like this??! ""South Africa has more serious problems to deal with than to finance toy trains for white tourists," he said, noting the still major investment needed in national infrastructure." Where does this idiot think the money comes from that has to pay for the "national infrastructure" that he so wisely quotes...? From Industry, and from Tourism of course. BOTH who needs INVESTMENT to be able to supply JOBS and generate INCOME. Income to pay lazy and uneducated Civil employees' salaries with..

How much does this clever person think it cost to build Disney world, or anything similar to that? R200 million is nothing for a regional and provincial and National attraction like the Outeniqua steam train. it has the potential to draw tourists to an area that seriously needs any kind of assistance to help keep open hotels, restaurants and even towns that are supplying 100s of people with jobs and places to live, but who are battling with unemployment and the devestating effects of the economy and ANC councils who bankrupted whole towns like Plettenberg Bay.

Should Outeniqua Choo Tjoe be revived?

Both Transnet and Government should be ashamed that they have allowed this National Asset to deteriorate! Transnet has acquired valuable assets through state funding which comes from the citizens of South Africa, so they owe it to the people and future generations to preserve something of tourism & historical importance.

Transnet should not be allowed to simply walk away from something which the citizens of this county helped build. For years Transnet had the use of this national asset that technically belongs to all of us and now that it no longer fits into their 'core business strategy' they're allowed to simply walk away.

There is not a single museum in the world that was commissioned with economics being the deciding factor. Museums are build because its the duty of a Government to preserve elements of historical importance for future generations and the Choo-Tjoe is no different. It is in fact a Living and working museum!

Government should be backing the Choo-Tjoe because of its tourism potential which stimulates job creation.

We should also not lost track of the fact that the railway line was insured so a substantial amount of the funding required to repair the line can come from this source.

Outeniua Choo Tjoe

It was always wonderful to experience this train ride with magnificent views, and it should be regarded as part of our heritage (ALL South Africans).
What about privatising, issueing shares for example, to raise funds for the project-- if properly managed, it could be self sustained imo.

Outeniqua choo choo

The comments by Transnet would be understandable if they would admit that tourism is not their strong point. But it seems to me that their record proves that their weak point is transport in any form. So to expect them to react in a positive way to the Choo Choo problem would be wishful thinking.

OUTENIQUA CHOO TJOE

I remember riding the choo-tjoe when I was a young girl in the 1940's while on holiday in George, from George to Victoria Bay, or Wilderness and Knysna, and absolutely loved it. They were the good days of the SA Railways, that our latter day children don't have the privilege of enjoying.

Yes, I definitely think it is worth re-instating for us Grandparents to treat our grandchildren. I have already taken my little grand-daughter on the Valley of 1000 Hills Choo Choo and she loved it so much.

You have my full support and vote.

Privatise

I don't think that the repairs etc. would cost as much as R200m. The Garden Route area is visited by hundreds of thousands of international visitors each year and if properly advertised, something that would in al likelihood happen with a private owner, the train would definitely be able to be self sustainable.

Rather spend on Metrorail?

Rather spend on Metrorail, But you dont either. It is so rundown that those who can afford to use a minibus taxi opt for that instead.

There are train crazy people who will FLY from another country to ride a train like this. They will pay for plane tickets, car hire, accommodation, meals all of which are taxable and hugely profitable. Then after splashing out money they will ride this toy train which is not financially viable! Really? Does this spokesperson believe that tourists spend all this money just so that they can sit inside their hotel rooms and watch TV. Why not close Prince ALfred Pass as well, it does not make a profit. For that matter close the beach. No profit there either!

What next, a game reserve without animals because even if renting beds are profitable keeping all the animals are not? The tourists will come anyway.

Wastage of Money

The person states that there is better uses for money that pouring it after hobbies of rich white people?

Could you explain what is better?

Buying new VVIP aircraft for the airforce, for MP's to abuse for holiday trips? Spending ridiculous amounts of money in Africa for peace keeping/aid when we have so much to fix in our very own country?

Get your priorities in order. Actually R200 million is nothing to what our government wastes on their own black people.

Knysna Choo Tjoe

The poor Transnet Executive, I feel for him, he is more dumb than ground !!!!!!! The revival of the Choo Tjoe will create more jobs for black than for whites but the poor thing only look at tourists as white people. But he forgets that in total the country,s municipalities spend R70,000,000-00 PER DAY on everything except service delivery. So, in a lousy three days more money is spent by blacks on themselves in top municipality positions that to revive the railway line !!!!

privatisation

We lost the Banana Express in Natal due to these incompetent people dont let it happen to the Outeniqua Choo Tjoe. The Banana Express ran for many years Privately until their contract came to a end then the state took over and stuffed it up. Now ts gone and its been left for so long to repair the line is now economically enviable, so they say ! But sometimes thing should be allowed to run at a loss for the benefit of the surrounding towns which generate tourism and these type of trains attract the tourists. Rather sooner than later sign a contract to private companies and lets get it going before its to late or to far gone to do anything about it.

Revival of the Ot.Choo-Choo

Yes it will be very beneficial for S.A. tourism and i am confident that when the renovation of the whole project is completed it will be surely selfpaying in a short period of time. The main issue is suposedly to get the green light shining for this project and to get the financial supporters.

The absolute misplaced and quite racistic remark of Mboniso Sigonyela is so unproductively negative and regretable "South Africa has more serious problems to deal with than to finance toy trains for white tourists," Hopefully this remark will be replaced by: "We as South-African rainbow nation are so proud of this scenery tourist trajectory we can recommend it to any tourist who want to experience the best of S.A."

The Choo-choo train

One Transnet executive, speaking on condition of anonymity, was blunter.

"South Africa has more serious problems to deal with than to finance toy trains for white tourists," he said, noting the still major investment needed in national infrastructure.

I CAN SEE WHY THIS TRANSNET EXECUTIVE WANTS TO STAY ANONYMOUS. HOW MUCH INCOME IS THIS GOVERNMENT GETTING FROM TOURISM? AND IS THIS GOVERNMENT NOT RIFE WITH CORRUPT OFFICIALS FILLING THEIR OWN POCKETS? SO YOU ARE RIDING ON THE CREST OF THE WAVE OF THE INCOME FROM THE "WHITE TOURISTS" AREN'T YOU? I CALL YOU A BLANTANT RACIST

Choo-choo train

There should be NO doubt to revive this train - anyone who disagrees has not been on this trip and experienced the scenery!

Choo-Tjoe

I live in Mossel Bay and get to see, on a daily basis, how the 2 x 19D steam locomotives have been left outside to rust to bits. Yes there is a GMAM garratt kept in a shed but that locomotive will be to heavy on the Knysna track not to mention added costs. In any event I bet that they have all been stripped of brass fittings, pipes, etc by now. Boiler certificates will be due (if not already) and so the costs keep mounting. Sad as it is the steam route will not be financially viable unless it is run by volunteers and the route opened to other activities, cycling, trail running, walking, etc. As for waiting for Transnet - well chances are better for the Rand exchange rate to improve to one to one to the US dollar

Choo Tjoe

The difficulty is that the cost of rehabilitating the line is not financially viable. It was however a welcome adjunct to tourism in the George Knysna area.

Yes, there are more pressing

Yes, there are more pressing things than toys for white tourists, like UNEMPLOYMENT. Last time i looked, it was tourists money which was creating a lot of employment for blacks. So it is an opportunity for white tourists to contribute to the black population. Sound familiar.
Lose the tourists today, your pool of whirtes paying for blacks declines.
Think carefully before making statements based on colour and bordering on reverse racism. Thought we had moved on?

cycle track

A more cost effective alternate use would be a cycle track linking Knysna and George using the old rail track path. This would probably bring in greater numbers of people and could be done over 1, 2 or 3 days bringing in more life to the B&B's and retaurants along the route and creating a more sustainable eco friendly "brand" of tourism. The steam train was also a cause of regular fires along it's route in the extended dry seasons.

My tax money

Sometimes, I would like MY tax money to be used for things I enjoy too, not just free everything for the poor masses. Racist Transnet fool!

Outeniqua Choo Tjoe

The Transnet official will shoot it down, because it will reduce his salary per month by a few million. Hundreds of thousands of people worldwide seek steam trains to travel on . This is a tourism goldmine, if they just explore it. Good marketing and they can get the Dollars, Euros and Pounds streaming in. If you privatise it, the Transnet officials will not benifit, so they will try to stop it. The country and tourism must get third place to their own greedy pockets.

Outeniqua Choo Tjoe

"South Africa has more serious problems to deal with than to finance toy trains for white tourists"
What a stupid ingnorant and arrogant comment!!

Allow the White folks to run it

If they are so worried that this is a thing for the white tourists, then let the white folks run it... We will revive it and use it and make it profitable, and we will get all tourists back into this beautiful part of our country... Transnet has a bunch of managers that are too scared to make a decision and take responsibility for that decision so as a result nothing happens.

This train provided much needed transport for the whole Knysna Area up to Mossel Bay and this included more than just white tourists, the train line is already there, lets fix it and use it...Damn it... And make a decision... Double damn it...

Comeau

It's clear that this is largely a racial decision, judging by the comments of the Transnet official who didn't want to be named.

The Choo-tjoe must run!

Transnet have systematically eliminated mainline steam because they are incompetent and lack the intellectual capacity to support it. There have been whispered suggestions that there have been racist overtones in their decision-making.

Union Rail, a former subsidiary of Transnet, ran successful steam journeys AT A PROFIT and attracted significant numbers of big-spending overseas enthusiasts. Transnet incomprehensibly chose to shut it down none-the-less.

Atlantic Rail still run steam excursions in Cape Town. Yesterday there was a Heritage Day steam run from Cape Town to Simonstown and back, with a train full of local families of all races. It was a lot of fun. Metrorail permit them on their lines even though they run their own hourly trains over the same tracks.

Transnet somehow ridiculously fear that the mere 4 or 5 trains they run per day countrywide (fewer than Metrorail run in just the Peninsula) will somehow be interfered with by one steam loco on their tracks.

China is busy constructing a 1000 kilometre line just for steam tourism. People that would have come to South Africa will now gladly spend more, endure longer flights, struggle with the local language and go to China instead.

The revenue-, job- and skills- loss for the country is immeasurable. And it is entirely due to a complete lack of vision at Transnet.